Curse

Spiritz · Dec 01, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

So your saying hm is too easy -
Pugs are a pain in the ass at times but its human nature - you 9/10 times often get players who rush in or dont know what their doing and when you try and point out nicely what their doing wrong - your the noob.
Ive seen players ask for help with a quest then go running into a mob and dying then expecting you to do the work for them.

HM is only as hard as you make it and if its too easy - then think about ditchin sabway /discordway etc and use less powerfull skills/build for the challenge

Jongal · Dec 01, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

EotN dungeons come close to Very Hard Mode but why locate them so far away? If you have to spend 15 - 20 minutes to get there then there are still almost no PUG's. Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn GW back to a multi player game.

And how is it ANets fault if people don't PUG for even the hardest dungeons? Slaver's is what HM should look like, balanced enemy groups with a skill set that makes sense. PUGs is just not what most people want. Either play with your guild or play alone.
I always saw GW as a kind of Diablo. I mostly play alone, and sometimes with one of my few friends that play GW.

Skyy High · Dec 01, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

HM could have been diffficult, but that a) would have required more work, and b) would have been absolutely hated by the players. Remember the epic QQ when HM was first released, and enemy monks actually kited for the entire battle? We had players on this forum complaining about running after a corsair monk for 5 minutes while his buddies wiped his H/H. Yeah, HM could have been mesmers-and-rangers-are-important-mode, but that would have forced people to think, and we can't have that...

kostolomac · Dec 01, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Solution: improve party search.

I agree , maybe something like a continent-wide party search would be awesome.

Hollygen · Dec 01, 2008, 07:03 PM // 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

H/H is preferable only because the process to find other people that want to do what you're doing and actually know how to play is too lengthy and hard.

Solution: improve party search.

Or improve the parties...no, wait. That would mean getting PUGs to suck less.
As it is you can either go out yourself with H/H, go out with friends/guildies, or go out with randoms and pray they don't mess up.

They could have made HM so hard you had to have a group, but GW never was about forced groupings, even at the beginning, or else why give us Henchies in the first place. No, GW gives us the options to be flexible in how we play, and I see no reason why that shouldn't continue into HM as well.

ac1inferno · Dec 01, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Let me prefact that I am a PvE player; I have not done PvP. I started GW when there was only Prophecies. The good old 'Mo LFG mission and bonus' etc. You simply had to get a PUG together otherwise there was no way to do certain missions. Getting PUG's for skill capping, exploring etcetera. This was the real MMORPG...

I remember the good old Prophecies only where there were no such things as heroes. Does this mean that people grouped up? Nope, as I remember, everybody used henchmen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Fast forwarding. After adding heroes in Nightfall we got Sabway and with PvE only skills from EotN my Monk can now tank and deal more DPS with Pain Inverter etc. than my old Prophecies warrior could. No balance in the game and it turned GW into a sibngle player game. We are doing titles now....? HFFF for hours and hours....? Thank God for the HFFF nerf.

As I remember, Guild Wars PvE has always been a single player game even before Factions came out. I don't remember anyone grouping together at all. It was just one person and seven henchmen. I agree that PvE only skills have dumbed down PvE, but there's not much you can do about SabWay without nerfing Soul Reaping further. Since the game has been out so long, people who have completed the main storyline want something to grind on. You don't have to grind with them if you don't want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

HM tried to change it. There are some areas where you just have to group because a H/H group would just get wiped. With SabWay and DiscordWay, like I said, there's not much you can do about those without touching up Soul Reaping even further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Of course I can turn to my guildies but I belong to a small guild and it's unlikely to get a group of 6 or 8 together. I know them for 3 years or so and I really don't want to change guilds.

You can always try to find new players for recruits. If you get a new player, chances are they want to get things done. If you get a player that has finished the storyline, chances are they just want to farm or grind something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

EotN dungeons come close to Very Hard Mode but why locate them so far away? If you have to spend 15 - 20 minutes to get there then there are still almost no PUG's. Arenanet missed an opportunity to turn GW back to a multi player game.

I don't see how locating dungeons far away prevent Pugs. If anything, you locate them near a town and people will set up heroes to counter the dungeon specifically and pugs would go down even further. The reason why they are far away is so that a balanced group is required to get to the destination and then complete it, instead of a group specifically designed to tackle the dungeon with minimal effort and ease going right into it without having to worry about fighting anything else.

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Dec 01, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaker

I too agree with this. The OP suggests that NCsoft missed a chance to "turn GW around" and make it a better MMO, but I think NCsoft may have seen the direction the player base was heading and felt that there were more sales available by appealing to the solo/multi-player gaming market.
Personally, I think in the long run, that I prefer the solo/multi-player aspect more than being forced to PUG.

^^ /agree lets look at the fact that Arenanets goal is to make money, just like any other company, and when they see the player base turning to things like sab/discordway, they shift their marketing techniques and the aspects of the game to accomodate those players.

also bring to light their goal of keeping players busy until GW2 (a goal which is failing miserably imo)

i just want more content, whether its solo gameplay or multiplayer. another design-a-weapon would be nice. Then maybe some of those last ones will go down in price

i do agree that sab/disc have helped to kill the game, but you cant expect to have an online game going forever.

The Meth · Dec 01, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

So whats the OP's problem?

That PuG players suck? If Anet could fix stupid people they wouldn't be making video games.

That HM was just Anet giving every monster lvl 28 and some buffs? If players came up against smart AI instead of ones that just hit 50% harder 90% of the playerbase would be bitching.

That heroes are too good? Without them you would never get to finish hard mode areas unless you had an entire guild ready to go.

PvE skills/other skills are unbalanced? Again, players would be bitching if everything in PvE wasn't easy and didn't have a single perfect build that could finish every area.

All those points above fall into the 'no shit' category. We all know about it.

Rak Orgon of Beowulf · Dec 01, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

also, i had a Hell's Precipice HM PuG two days ago that consisted of me(r) 2 sins, a war, 2 healer monk heroes, a N/rt SS support hero and a derv. Mission and bonus went Pretty smoothly. Sab/disc are not the only way to do HM, but they are generally the easy way, and, of course people are most likely to take the path of least resistance.

another tip for HM.. Prot spirit and *gasp* careful pulling!

Antares Ascending · Dec 01, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Agree with above!!! Thanks you AC

Very sad. You complain that HM isn't hard enough ( try slavers )
but you haven't done anything to assure you have a ready group of players up to the level of play needed. You are in a small guild that seems content to stay small and won't leave. Thats fine but if HM was rully rully uber hard that wouldn't work. Pugs aren't dependable and there always seems to be 1 or 2 players just along for the ride. That said, there are some tough areas out there. Try Mallyx where all those hexes and conditions don't do the job. Try slavers, frostmaw in hm . Very fun dungeons.

Skills
Yes there are some new and strong pve skills but the real difference is the level of skill in the player base along the ability to find a better build on fansites and wiki to tweek to your liking

Earth · Dec 01, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The forth fly

pvp players arseholes much

What does that have to do with anything?

Shayne Hawke · Dec 01, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollygen

Or improve the parties...no, wait. That would mean getting PUGs to suck less.
As it is you can either go out yourself with H/H, go out with friends/guildies, or go out with randoms and pray they don't mess up.

Most guilds don't recruit well. They usually make a heavy application process to turn away players that just want to play, or they recruit any and everyone that wants to sign up. Unless you have had some sort of previous bond with someone in a guild, the chances of finding a good player or two that will party with you is slim. Maybe I've just never been in a good guild.

Random groups are... Well, going to RA is probably the fastest way to get an idea of how bad that can be.

Global party search still can't allow you to immediately weed out good players from bad, but it helps in an activity sense. If players could see what people were doing all across a continent, or even the whole world of GW, I would imagine that grouping would be easier to do. It's a waste of time to try and get groups together for some missions in certain campaigns because you don't often see enough active people there for a good group.

-Lotus- · Dec 01, 2008, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

HM could have changed that. It should have been SO HARD that you simply HAVE to have a group in order to vanquish an area. But no - with Sabway or Discordway we can still H/H the areas. Which means that there are simply no PUG's for vanquishing and bye bye to the MMORPG.

If HM were like that no one outside of the "elite" pve guilds would be able to do it at all. those are the only people in the game that still form decent PuGs. People are way to stupid in gneral to play a game as complex as guild wars has become.

stop complaining about the lack of groups for a second and stop to think of what kind of retards you will have to play with if you make groups for everything.

daze · Dec 02, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

As GW has grown and become more in depth, PUG's are less and less reliable..

If you want to play where PUGs have a higher chance of success, i recommend purchasing a game where you can repeatedly faceplant your keyboard and win. I recommend WoW i hear its the new Ursan.

isamu kurosawa · Dec 02, 2008, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvalentijn

Let me prefact that I am a PvE player; I have not done PvP. I started GW when there was only Prophecies. The good old 'Mo LFG mission and bonus' etc. You simply had to get a PUG together otherwise there was no way to do certain missions.

Your arguement failed here.

The whole game was easily henchable during proph only days. Infact a competent player had more luck with hench just as they do with heroes now because a majority of players sucked.

Granted, bad players had better success with other people because of the chance of gettting less bad players in the team and because not all decent players decided to use hench only at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

That PuG players suck? If Anet could fix stupid people they wouldn't be making video games.

New consumable needed!

xDusT II · Dec 02, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

If HM instances were increased in difficulty to prevent people H/Hing them, there would be even less people forming HM groups. The main problem why no one does HM (Vanquishes) is the rewards usually cannot compete with the popular farming runs.

Tenebrae · Dec 02, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritz

So your saying hm is too easy -
Pugs are a pain in the ass at times but its human nature - you 9/10 times often get players who rush in or dont know what their doing and when you try and point out nicely what their doing wrong - your the noob.
Ive seen players ask for help with a quest then go running into a mob and dying then expecting you to do the work for them.

HM is only as hard as you make it and if its too easy - then think about ditchin sabway /discordway etc and use less powerfull skills/build for the challenge

QFT
Heroes, Sabway and Discordway helped so much the game but made dumb ppl dumber . Just load the build on pvxwiki , act dumb and heroes will make the work .... then u join a PUG and 2 things happen :
- The guy realise he is dumb and tries to improve
- The guy blames and insult the other ppl ( who most of the times are way better than him ).

HM was only rise mob lvls and give elites to those who didnt have one ..... wow lots of work ! . Only some dungeons are close to the way HM should be ,( i mean in NM ) like Slavers , Orr , Frostmaw .... well shit happens so kkthnxbye . Try to do better on GW2 Anet thnkx

Spiritz · Dec 02, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

The other off-putting thing about pugs is - often ppl want players with certain professions and builds and if u dont fall into that they dont want to know you.
Q. quickest way to be invited to a pug ?
A. Be at umbrals grotto as a perma sin or be a monk

Whenever myself or my wife goes to umbrals for a bit of snowman bashing upon arrival we get pestered with invites ( im sure other sins are same ) without being asked and assumed were here to vs farm - now thats damn annoying an more when u say in local im here to farm snowmen only - in plain view and ppl still invite u (grrrrr )

We all know doa is hard to farm even in hm and often theres a thread about no ppl at doa etc - thought about trying there if hm is too easy lol.

And since when was gw just about being in a guild and doing stuff with guildies ?
I tend to do 50% farming , 25% helping on starter areas with guildies and non guildies and 25% chatting to ppl in outposts and making friends who i may end up doing quests with.

And if ur pug team fail - stop cryin and bitchin/blame passing and see where u went wrong and retry - its how we learn via trial and error and players with experiance can help pass it on - that way we`ll have better pugs if needed to play with.

Sabway and discordway got me thru eotn/prophs and factions but ive also gone back and tried without them - that way its more a challange

Arwen Erina · Dec 02, 2008, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I remember the times when it was next to imposible to get from ascalon -> ToPK without other players help.
I remember when Iron Mines was next to imposible to do alone.
I remember when you could farm with Protective Bond.
I remember when Droknars Forge was the place to be.
I remember how Black Dye REALLY looks like.
I remember Factions and the Deep.
I remember the release of Nightfall.
I remember the problems with Gate of Madness.
I remember when DoA came out.
I remember the times when DoA was ONLY doable without a solid team.
I remember "Eskimo builds"
I remember "Tank and spank"
I remember "NM beeing HM"
I remember Cons, Sabway, Discordway and so on.
QQ ftw, back then.
Ursan came out, QQ for beeing able to do DoA within 1:30 or less.
Ursan was nerfed, QQ for not beeing able to finnish DoA in 1:30 or less anymore.
Perma-sin QQ.
Perma-sin + Cryway: QQ, overpowered.
PvE skills: QQ, overpowered.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

Conclution: If i was Anet: GW = history. All you do is whining about this and that.

Ofc, there will allways be whining about whatever. PPL do have different skills, understanding and knowlage about the game.
Making a game to please everyone = impossible.
Espessially when Internet+Anonymous = asshole.

Get over it. GW was not created for YOUR LIKING, for YOU TO GET YOUR ROCKS OFF, but for the average player.
Whatever, if its too easy. Do something hard then. Go H/H Elite Areas, max out some insane titles, get a speedclear record of DoA, UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz, Tombs, whatever. GW was NOT MADE FOR YOUR LIKING! But for the average player.
And if GW is to hard? READ FORUMS+GWwiki+PvXwiki++++++ QQ.
If i was Anet, I would do like Red does, and "plant a foot in your ***".

Geez..

Edit: This whole post is about Whining about Whiners. You dont need to point it out.

daze · Dec 02, 2008, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Erina

I remember the times when it was next to imposible to get from ascalon -> ToPK without other players help.
I remember when Iron Mines was next to imposible to do alone.
I remember when you could farm with Protective Bond.
I remember when Droknars Forge was the place to be.
I remember how Black Dye REALLY looks like.
I remember Factions and the Deep.
I remember the release of Nightfall.
I remember the problems with Gate of Madness.
I remember when DoA came out.
I remember the times when DoA was ONLY doable without a solid team.
I remember "Eskimo builds"
I remember "Tank and spank"
I remember "NM beeing HM"
I remember Cons, Sabway, Discordway and so on.
QQ ftw, back then.
Ursan came out, QQ for beeing able to do DoA within 1:30 or less.
Ursan was nerfed, QQ for not beeing able to finnish DoA in 1:30 or less anymore.
Perma-sin QQ.
Perma-sin + Cryway: QQ, overpowered.
PvE skills: QQ, overpowered.
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ

Conclution: If i was Anet: GW = history. All you do is whining about this and that.

Ofc, there will allways be whining about whatever. PPL do have different skills, understanding and knowlage about the game.
Making a game to please everyone = impossible.
Espessially when Internet+Anonymous = asshole.

Get over it. GW was not created for YOUR LIKING, for YOU TO GET YOUR ROCKS OFF, but for the average player.
Whatever, if its too easy. Do something hard then. Go H/H Elite Areas, max out some insane titles, get a speedclear record of DoA, UW, FoW, Deep, Urgoz, Tombs, whatever. GW was NOT MADE FOR YOUR LIKING! But for the average player.
And if GW is to hard? READ FORUMS+GWwiki+PvXwiki++++++ QQ.
If i was Anet, I would do like Red does, and "plant a foot in your ***".

Geez..

Edit: This whole post is about Whining about Whiners. You dont need to point it out.

WTF is algernon juice?